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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
 Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:11:57
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My fellow yaks; I need your advice. Here's the thing;I have a good steady job with great benifits, decent salary and great colleagues, tons of good looking women ( ), I hardly work any overtime and to the average bystander it looks great. The problem is that the the job itself is pretty boring. I never get to do the real juicy sql server stuff that I was promised in the interviews and I'm basically working full-time maintaining some databases created by my predecessor (is that the right word??) which are a complete mess and after 1.5 years I still haven't managed to fix them in to a manageble state (I do other things too). Then one day a few weeks ago an old schoolmate of mine called me up and asked me if I was interested in joining a small dev-team in a fairly new company that was just established. The business model is quite something: if I get employed by them I am obliged to take the MCDBA and MCT (MS Certicied Trainer)- certification within the end of my 6 months trial period. If I fail I'm fired. The courses will be free and I'll be doing training during work hours meaning that I'll get paid for doing this. I also have to do consulting 2-3 days a week to finance this training and after the training is done I'm supposed to do consulting which I'm somewhat sceptical to but could turn out to be really great. The biggest downsides are that I'll have to take a 20% pay-cut, leave all the great people at the job I have now and basically go to a much more insecure job with much more overtime and all that. Am I beeing a total noob for not taking this offer right away?? Getting paid to take the MCDBA and MCT would really be something but then again something in the back of my head makes me doubtful. I'd appreciate any views on this...--Lumbago"Real programmers don't document, if it was hard to write it should be hard to understand" |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:24:17
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| It depends on your interests, your stage of life, how much risk you can take etc. If you are still young and dont have a family to support or have a steady income from the spouse.. AND interested in consulting this will be a wonderful opportunity. You can sit on the server for 2 yrs and do the same thing and not learn anything new or get into consulting and face new challenges every week, with a different client. You do this for a few months or an year and suddenly you will feel yourself at a totally different level than where you were before you started this. So if you can take the risk factor then it will be an interesting adventure.Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:26:25
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| I would not take the new job if there was a 20% pay-cut. Here is what is important to me: job security, salary, benefits, employee recognition via reviews/bonuses/awards/..., and job duties. Number of hours per week is important too, but as a DBA, I'm expected to put in after-hours time and in general overtime.Certifications are practically useless for experienced people.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/ |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:29:46
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i'd go to my current boss and tell him what you've been offered (don't mention the paycut).explain to him that you're bored.but i'd do it all in a way that is completly non threatning. tell him that you enjoy it here and that this offer got you thinking about what you would like to do.what do you know... you might get down and dirty where you are. and i don't mean the women!  _______________________________________________Causing trouble since 1980blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenpSSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:43:04
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| The money isn't too much of an issue actually...and I'm still single so there's no family or kids or anything like that. Hmm...it's still a tough decision...--Lumbago"Real programmers don't document, if it was hard to write it should be hard to understand" |
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Zoroaster
Aged Yak Warrior
702 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:49:41
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I wouldn't do it, use the extra time you have in your current job to pursue other things. If I wanted the certs I would do those myself, use the 20% extra your making and save up for training etc. If you want adventure, use your current gig as a stable money maker and work on independent consulting or other business ventures/investments on the side. Just my opinion.
Future guru in the making. |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:53:02
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| Shouldn't consultancy gigs pay higher than regular full-time gigs? That's the biggest benefit of moving to an insecure job. If you are really considering a new job, I'd see what else is out there first. This current offer doesn't sound great to me. There are probably plenty of other consultancy gigs that are similar and pay better. Over here, I'd expect to get paid ~20% more if I went for a consultancy job rather than full-time work. The certification part of the new job shouldn't be a consideration as you are a highly skilled SQL developer already and don't need papers to prove it. Experience is way more important.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/ |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:54:32
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| I agree with Zoroaster. You don't need to take any courses to pass the cert exams. The courses are useless anyway, trust me. I've been to one, it was a terrible waste of my time. You can easily pass the cert exams if you purchased the right books and studied for them. It is so much cheaper to do it that way than to take those expensive and useless courses.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/ |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:58:45
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| ...and I agree that certifications are useless for experienced people but I don't really fit in to that category. Even though I have a few years working professionally with sql servers I have *a lot* to learn and I basically want to know it all... The good thing about this new company is that they have extremely good connections with Microsoft and are allready a Certified Gold Partner after only about 9 months of business. The CEO of this company is actually hired in by MS to teach new MS local employees about their own products These connections could be very useful in the future...--Lumbago"Real programmers don't document, if it was hard to write it should be hard to understand" |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 14:59:40
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| The biggest teaser for me would be the consulting. I dont care about the certs either. If you visit various clients you can learn about different setups, different complications - some clients have just one server and a big ass database, some have 100 servers, some have 100 databases spread across 10 servers.. there so much you can lean from these kind of scenarios that you cannot learn by working for one company for 10 yrs. Everyone has different career goals they want to pursue, so it comes back to what are yours.Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 15:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Lumbago
Even though I have a few years working professionally with sql servers I have *a lot* to learn and I basically want to know it all...
You will learn very little from taking those cert courses and exams. Please don't get me wrong, it's great that you are looking at other job opportunities. But I'd strongly recommend looking elsewhere. There is so much else out there where you'd learn a lot and not be required to get certified or have to take a pay-cut. In fact, you almost always should expect a pay increase when you move jobs. That's why IT professionals move on average every 2 years.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/ |
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dinakar
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2507 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 15:18:23
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quote:
Originally posted by tkizerThat's why IT professionals move on average every 2 years.
time for me to move too coming soon...Dinakar Nethi************************Life is short. Enjoy it.************************http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/ |
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Lumbago
Norsk Yak Master
3271 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 15:27:51
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| I've never been in the consulting business before and I'm not sure if I would like it or not. I *really* appreciate the social aspects of the job I have now but I really don't see myself getting out of the boring stuff I'm doing now. But spirit's suggestion about going to the boss and lay out the story could be a push in the right direction.--Lumbago"Real programmers don't document, if it was hard to write it should be hard to understand" |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 16:27:10
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| i know because i've been in that situation.i've changed places in the end but it was a push in the right direction._______________________________________________Causing trouble since 1980blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenpSSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com |
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rockmoose
SQL Natt Alfen
3279 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 19:15:44
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I switched from consultancy to "regular pay check job" because after a few yearsthe social aspects of consultancy was not very good.The hired gun feeling and not "being part" of the company you "worked for" just got too depressing.However I took a 20% reduction when switching from consultancy to regular  .Now it's ok though, took a year...Anyway, in life I don't know what I regret the most, the things I did do, or the things I did not do.Whatever you decide to do, be happy with it afterwards, take a shot and accept the risk,or stay the way you are and be confident that it was a sound decision.rockmoose |
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jezemine
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2886 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 19:51:05
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in feb 2006, I changed jobs from working on sql server at MS to a small company (about 40 people). I love my new job. I didn't take a pay cut, and I like the people I am working with more - smaller company is just a cozier fit for me I think.Sounds a little like the opposite case for you: you like the people you are with now and would take a pay cut if you left for this other gig. Take Mladen's advice and push your boss for more interesting work. If he/she ignores you, look elsewhere, but not to some chumps that are trying to underpay. my 2 cents.
elsasoft.org |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-18 : 20:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by rockmoose
I switched from consultancy to "regular pay check job" because after a few yearsthe social aspects of consultancy was not very good.The hired gun feeling and not "being part" of the company you "worked for" just got too depressing.However I took a 20% reduction when switching from consultancy to regular .Now it's ok though, took a year...
Yeah I'd expect a paycut when going from consultancy to regular full-time, but definitely not the other way around.Tara KizerMicrosoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Serverhttp://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/ |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-19 : 02:40:42
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| Blimey, that's a hell of a thread for a couple of hours. My couple-of-Kroner's worth.The new jobs sounds awful.What do you want the certificates for anyway? I haven't got any. We are basically a one-product company and manage our own stuff, so we don't have to build real-world-ness into Installers or any of that sort of stuff. So I consider my skills to be relatively "narrow". but folk pay me good money for consultancy, and Boy can I make their rubbish systems wake up and smell the Coco! but that is only through being interested in what I do, hanging out here and learning stuff from Peso's solutions to other people, and so on. Stuff the Certs!And why do the new company need you to consult-out? Because that will pay your wages and they'll get you for free. Unless they are giving you 50% of the startup stock and its a racing certainty then walk away. Plus if they are good mates you run the risk of losing them when it all turns sour ...Tell your boss that you haven't accomplished what you were employed to do and you want to set a deadline with him to get that stuff done. He'll have to cut you some slack on the crappy stuff so you have time to get the Maint. things sorted out, but then time will be saved because the Maint. will run better, and the company will be less reliant on you - e.g. if you were hit by a bus - so its good for the company too.Sounds like you boss is leaving you to it and you aren't pushing yourself hard enough. Sorry if I've got that wrong.And if the certification is important to you tell your current boss that he's got to enable you to get that too.There, that's got that off my chest!"created by my predecessor (is that the right word??) "Hopefully you didn't mean pre-decease-r! Kristen |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-19 : 07:16:52
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| Haven't read the thread but the new job sounds like you're doing consultancy to get the company money to pay for the courses and your salary. When that's done they'll sell you on more consultancy and training roles to get them even more money a small part of which would be your salary - and probably dump you as soon as they can't find work for you. How friendly were you with the schoolmate?Sounds like a body shop to me and I wouldn't touch it unless you are a partner in the business.Your current job sounds pertty good - try asking for someone else to offload the dross onto while you concentrate on rewriting the system - preferably using trendy technology.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-19 : 08:37:19
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| "tons of good looking women"This is Norway we are talking about, Right?If so I've got a better idea. You take the new job and I'll take your old one! |
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master
11752 Posts |
Posted - 2007-10-19 : 08:46:27
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does this mean your wife is for the taking, Kristen? Are we going to have a SQLTeam-swap-an-object?  _______________________________________________Causing trouble since 1980blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenpSSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com |
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I'm offered a new job but should I take it?